caught somewhere between real life, simple faith, & raw emotion
Quote of the Week on the Bible
Here’s my quote for the week. It’s from Chapter 3 of my book on the Bible:
“I started to wonder if the Bible was nothing more than the tool of rich and powerful white guys in the past that refined it to fit their personal agendas (you know, to suppress other ethnic groups and women) and maintain their status quo.
Or was it just the record and musings of a bunch of beatniks smoking dope and writing their hallucinations down? That’s what some people say about the Bible, and it’s hard not to believe it when you’re having your own doubts. There seems to be so much you have to overlook in order to believe it. I hate that I can’t figure it all out.
In more optimistic moments, I’ve tried sharing some of the truths I’ve learned from the Bible, but this seems to highlight the problem even more. There’s an awkward tension, as if I’m trying to explain the plot of some obscure cult classic movie like Blade Runner: “No really, Harrison Ford is also a Replicant! He’s not even human, but you have to see the director’s cut to totally get it.” (That’s not true. The director’s cut is even more confusing.)”
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Chris,
Based on your responses (ex. some of the terms/phrases you use), it seems that you have some experience or history with church and/or the Bible. For example, you said “I thought the word of God is infallible?” – I don’t think I have ever heard that phrase outside of a church or seminary before. And your comments about Hebrew language are not common knowledge. I am curious about your background. You make the assumption that God “forgot” to add the details to the writing, but as I said originally, I think rather that they were omitted as non-essential to the theme of the book. Or maybe they slipped out of the text over time? I do not know.
I am struck by the irony though that you say it takes faith to believe the things in the Bible, which I agree that it does, but at the same time you demonstrate a similar faith when you assert your theory of man’s origins (in your response to Jason).
Anyway, I am glad you took the time to come back and write a reply. I hope you do again.
The old testament is not full of just murders and rapists. How many people in the old testament does God lay waste to or do so through orders to his angels (or as they are in the old testament, his Assassins). Also I will say that nobody can truly believe the old testament is true. OK we are all descendants from Adam and Eve? Really? Has anyone even looked into the effects of inbreeding in the human race. We would have died off thousands of years ago. So if we all came from Adam and Eve where did Cain and Able’s wives come from. Your right they had to be their sisters. I do not believe that the Bible is a Historical Document. It is as much a Historical Document as Gone with the Wind. Yes the civil war happened and yes some of those things in gone with the wind could have happened but it is not a Historical document.
Omitted details is the story of the bible. Assumption is not what you would expect in a book that is supposed to be the Word of God. I thought that God was infallible? If he is then why did he forget to add those details in his book. The old testament is supposed to be the word of God handed down to his chosen people.
I don’t agree about the rainbow thing. Are we to believe that before Noah built the ark it never rained on earth. No way. That takes more faith to believe then anyone I know can have.
It is not only the New Testament that has been rewritten and (the key) translated so many times but the entire bible. Hebrew was a spoken language and when it was written it was a code. They don’t have any vowels in the Hebrew language so you need to fill them in yourself. If you replace a vowel incorrectly then you change the word. I suggest you look into the Lecture that I linked to. It will give you some great insight into the story of the bible. That lecture was performed by a Benedictine Monk so he is NOT ripping on the bible just telling a factual history of the writings of the book. You will learn how there have been numerous times when the bible was completely rewritten.
As for the Lost Chapters. Who knows. I do know that depending on which bible you are reading the contents will be different. Some bibles exclude some chapters and some include some other ones. Also the New Testament has letters that scholars have found are not truly the persons they are credited to. Like Paul’s letters are not really Paul’s letters but some were written LONG after he was dead, hundreds of years after he died. I have no problem with people putting their faith in a God but not in a Book. The two are not the same.
Nope not a christian private school. No it is not a public school but this is a chain of daycare centers that are not christian schools.
I am sorry but you can’t teach the bible as the truth and true science in the same place. They contradict each other on too many planes. I do not believe that the bible is the word of God. It has been rewritten and re-translated way too many times to be anything but a work of fiction at this point. Now do I believe that some of what is written really happened? Yes I do, but overall I believe that it is still a work of fiction at this point. It may have one time been a account of things but the book had been watered down.
I still can’t see where the creationists come up with the fact that we came from monkeys? Evolution doesn’t work that way. We have a common ancestor. We are not Monkeys. We are not descendants of monkeys. As a matter of fact we have almost nothing in common with monkeys. 1st off we are talking about the Great Apes. And they share and ancestor with us. What that means is that Genesis is wrong (which anyone who is educated in science knows anyways) and that we are evolved from something that is not Ape or Man but a extinct species. This species’ dna changed as the world around them changed. As the world changed small changes were made to adapt to the new world. Along the line somewhere the Great Apes branched off and from us (or the other way around) Similar to the Neanderthal and Cro-Magnan man are not the same but they are not too different. But this is not a discussion about Evolution so I will save that for when you make that post.
Chris, I am not sure where you are coming from. It is true that the Old Testament includes characters who are murderers, rapists, etc., but that is because it is about real people. They did the same bad things back then that people do now. So they were not perfect, why is that crazy?
And simply because some details are omitted (Cain & Abel’s sisters/wives), that doesn’t discredit the book. They just aren’t seen as important to the historical account. The author assumes the reader can put the pieces together.
And since it had not rained on the earth before the time of Noah, God did basically create the first rainbow for him – how does this prevent your child from learning later the scientific reason WHY we see rainbows? I don’t think these ideas are mutually exclusive, but people can have knowledge of both. I do not know your son’s age, but if he is not in high school or above, I doubt he will be able to process the concepts of refraction, wavelengths and angles needed to fully understand a rainbow.
As far as the new testament being re-written so many times, does that include every time somebody wanted to make a copy for themselves? It’s not like they had copy machines to do it for them. How else would they be able to share it? I am also interested to know what facts have been lost? And if they were lost, how does anyone know that they ever existed? Or what they were?
Chris,
I understand your points, but I do not agree with them all.
On your kids and the school, although it claims to be teaching county curriculum, I’m willing to bet it’s a Christian private school? I don’t think you’re telling the whole story here. If I’m wrong, I apologize. If I’m right, then take them out if you don’t like what they choose to supplement. If it’s a public school, then file a complaint.
Keep in mind this is only a portion of the chapter. This is not the context of the whole chapter. I am not in your camp here. I believe the level of credibility for the Bible is unparalleled when it comes to works of antiquity.
So make no mistake, I do believe the Bible. Call me crazy. I guess it could be worse, I could believe we all came from monkeys…
Yeah I fully understand where you are coming from with this. OK So Cain is the Brother of Able and they are the children of Adam and Eve at the time you have to figure that there are only 2 people on the earth and they have 2 sons that unless they are some kind of amphibians the race now officially dies off but Cain and Able have wives (who what where) and that is just the beginning of the bible we haven’t even left genesis yet.
I send my kids to a school that “Follows County School Curriculum” yet they teach my oldest son that a rainbow is created because it is god letting us know he is not going to flood the earth again. How the hell am I supposed to tell my kids to listen to their teachers and then argue with them about how they are just telling them STORIES from the bible and that a rainbow is not a message from God but light reflecting off of raindrops. How are they preparing our kids for school when they tell them crap like that is true? KEEP THE BIBLE OUT OF SCHOOLS!!!
Like you said most of that crap makes no sense anyways. The Bible is a good story to teach people about how to treat others. At least the new testament is if you read the Old Testament everyone needs to be killed off and other crazy murderous stories. The Old Testament is not worth the paper it is written on as 99% of it is just not true and then it is full of murder and death and incest. The New Testament at least (while being rewritten a hundred times) is full of inspiring stories. That is just what they are Stories and should be read as that. If you believe in God and Jesus then you need to know that those stories have been rewritten hundreds of times and have lost most of the facts due to improper translations.
If your interested in the story of the bible then you need to listen to this lecture series http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedesclong2.aspx?cid=6252 it is a bit long but wow does it explain alot. I am sure that fanatical Christians will all say that Dr Johnson is a lying devil worshiper but He is:
Luke Timothy Johnson is the Robert W. Woodruff Professor of New Testament and Christian Origins at Emory University’s Candler School of Theology in Atlanta, Georgia.
Professor Johnson earned his B.A. in Philosophy from Notre Dame Seminary in New Orleans, a Master of Divinity in Theology from Saint Meinrad School of Theology, an M.A. in Religious Studies from Indiana University, and his Ph.D. in New Testament Studies from Yale University.
A former Benedictine monk, Professor Johnson has taught at Yale Divinity School and Indiana University. He is the author of more than 20 books, including The Real Jesus: The Misguided Quest for the Historical Jesus and the Truth of the Traditional Gospels, and The Writings of the New Testament: An Interpretation, which is used widely as a textbook.
OK I said my piece.