caught somewhere between real life, simple faith, & raw emotion
Some Atheists Don’t Like Me/Us
It’s been awesome. I have been in contact with all kinds of different people over the last six months. Old friends and new friends. The spiritually curious and spiritually convinced. Lovers and haters.
Some of the most interesting reactions I’ve gotten have been from agnostics and atheists.
On one hand, there are those that respect my honesty and desire to help Christians be better followers of Jesus. And then there are those who hate me.
Why?
It’s strange. Some people don’t like people who believe in God. The funny thing is, I have no problem with those who don’t believe. I wrestle with doubt every day. But sometimes it is difficult for some people to accept believing in something that you cannot see or produce evidence of and test in a bunsen burner.
I get it.
I don’t have a problem with skepticism (I wrote about it here). But in the end, I still believe in God. I think that makes some people afraid. There seems to be a sense that if we will believe in something so mystical (and base our whole life around it), what other weird things will we believe in and do? To some onlookers, there is an unpredictability and stupidity to faith.
I suppose I agree a little. And I hate it.
For me, having faith is not a popularity contest. I stopped caring a long time ago what people think of me. Even Jesus warned that some people would not understand faith, and even hate those that follow him. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t try to get people to hate me. I simply understand that sometimes it is unavoidable. I just won’t stop believing in God.
Pay attention here. This is what it’s all about. I have decided there are two types of people in this world:
1. Th believe this is all accidental and random.
2. And those that don’t.
I don’t. I have a very deep sense that this is NOT at all accidental. And that’s what I come back to time and time again. It’s the very basis of my whole faith journey.
I am not ashamed of it. I do not feel stupid for it. And neither should you.
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No worries. All the best (and read the book)…
OK. I am sorry for using the word “idiots.” And it is OK (as in just above ‘not too bad’) for some (not all) people to believe in it. I think it helps some people out of some really bad situations. And I think we should probably stop our conversation here. I just wish I could get through to some people I guess. But it always ends in argument and the usual “I choose to believe” bit. For a person like me, it is like living in a nation of zombies like so much North Korea or something. Like if I try to tell someone there is a whole world outside of the DMZ they start start fearing for their immortal soul and run as far away from me as they can before the “mind gaurds” find them and kill them. Now I just used that as an example, I am not saying you are bad people or that you are under the control of some maniacal dictator. I just wanted you to get an idea on how I feel. That is all. Don’t try to read anything into it.
I spend 5 years studying the movie. There are no major holes that I could find. Just a few minor ones. I am not just some regular joe off the street either. I have recieved all 7 sacraments of the catholic church. Not many people “alive” can say that. I actually recieved the 7th twice. But that is a different story. Godspeed friend.
Dissent all you want with me, but try to be respectful. While I have been direct and open in our conversation, I have resisted the name-calling.
It takes away from the dialogue and content.
You started this all with “I think it’s OK for people to believe in that stuff (God).”
You’ve changed your tone a bit here. Or you don’t really believe that.
But no conversation (albeit heated) is productive when it reverts to 3rd Grade name-calling.
PS-I am familiar with the movie you mentioned, and I beg to differ on your perception of it.
Well, my “fantasy” is basically playing out in Europe as we speak. Maybe you have heard of the European Union.
Here is something I know you will never watch or listen to. http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com
It is the truth. It is all based on fact. So, if you truly want to know why atheists think you are all idiots. This is why.
We agree to disagree. That’s where I’ll end it.
I’ll believe my ‘fantasy’, and you believe yours.
I didn’t think you would like it. Not many people like new ways of thinking. People who don’t know what to call it use words like altruistic or egalitarian. And where the hell did totalitarian come from. This is a democracy. I guess I should have been more specific. I forget people don’t know how to think outside of the box. I never said it was perfect, therefore we can get rid of any utopia. I simply gave you a solution and without so much as batting an eye, you dismiss it as something that has been tried in the past and failed instead of a new hybrid system of democracy and a government that is truly for the people. Sure there will need to be checks and balances, but do we really need to get into all that? What I am creating has never been done before. It has been implied and lied about, but never truly done.
Yes, give them money TO LEAVE. Where did you get giving them more power? Did you even read what I wrote? Or are you just to narrow minded to imagine a world outside and beyond the US? Friend, money is not power. Wherever they go, they will just be regular rich people who will be hated by their neighbors. I chose this route because killing should only be considered as a last resort. Surely you would have to agree with me on this point at least? I think Africa has seen enough death, disease, and just all out horror. I don’t think the plan will go perfectly, but it is a solution, it is better than what we are doing now, and it WILL work.
Now, time to put the ball in your court Mr. Critisism. I offered you a solution. You twisted it into something it isn’t. Now it is your turn to come up with a solution. If you are going to critisize something, you better have some suggestions, otherwise your just an ignorant dime store bully. AND THAT IS A JOKE TO ME !
And when did I ever say you were crazy. Do me a favor, if you would like to continue this conversation or any conversation for that matter, stop putting words into peoples mouths and stop trying to read to much into things and make false assumptions (Those ASSUMPTIONS always seem to fall in your favor don’t they).
Point of fact, I NEVER asked why atheists don’t like ‘religious’ people. In fact, I said I get it.
And there it is (your solution). The problem you say is money going to corrupt leaders with too much power. Your solution? Give more money to them, use more power to force them to go somewhere, institute even MORE power to rule all, and assume everyone will live some altruistic and egalitarian life under the ‘utopia’ you’ve created through totalitarianism–and they’ll all be happy about it.
And I’m the crazy one. That’s some jump the shark stuff, if you ask me.
Ok. Here we go. Now don’t be all upset when somebody decides to tell you the truth. You wonder why your government, work, and pretty much everyone around you lies all the time? It’s because people get mad and turn you off when you tell them the truth. So don’t get huffy with me, you’re the one who wanted to know why atheists don’t like religious people.
Now for the solution. I am glad you asked. I bet you thought I was all bark and no bite. Heh Heh ! Big mistake. Now here again, you might not like the answer, but it is the best one I can come up with.
First of all, we need to stop trying to make Africa like America. We need to rethink the third world life. However, before we do that, we have one major problem. Borders. Borders are what cause wars. Draw a line in the sand and someone will undoubtedly cross it. We will have to get rid of all the borders in Africa and have a single governing African entity. This makes for fewer people that need to be bought off. (See American Foreign Policy) This can be accomplished in two ways: lots of blood or lots of money. I personaly choose the money route because the stuff is pretty much useless anyways. So, you pay off all the government leaders and their people and banish them from the country for the next 20 years. You then start immediate triage on the people, they will be in shock and horror at first so we need to flood the continent with food and medical supplies. People who are healthy and not hungry are much easier to talk rationally too. Now to create a temporary government. Start with a puppet leader (interim) and create government jobs through the Departments of Housing, Food, Shelter, Water, Clothing, Transportation, Energy, Economy, Enviroment, Education, and Law. This is the groundwork for new Africa. It sounds a little like America, but these groups are more focused on real issues. Each department will have a mission. Make their department obsolete. I will give you a second to think about that last sentence.
This can be done. In fact, I live pretty much off the grid myself. Not because I had to, but because I wanted to. And I live very comfortably with very little money. It didn’t come cheap, but the more books you read, the less expensive it is.
Any more questions?
Okay, now for your solution? I hear you complaining, but no direction? That’s a joke to me.
That’s because Christians will believe in anything, especially what you just said. Do you honestly believe that the TRILLION’S of dollars that the world has donated to Africa since “We are the World” has changed anything? They should be very well clothed and very well fed and have plenty of clean water and food don’t you think? Can Christains not do simple math? Or do they leave math up to jesus along with everything else? All you are doing is buying weapons and supplies for the warlords, thus actually making things worse for the people that live there. The rich are getting richer with your donations. Sure some of it trickles down (Reaganomics Style) and sure the missionaries do good things for the few months they are there.
And yes, I have been there. Yes, I have seen all of this first hand.
Africa, in case you didn’t know, is the richest continent in the world in it’s resources.
Stop kidding yourself.
I appreciate your comments and I am all for personal responsibility.
However, I disagree with some of what you say. So called ‘religious’ people as you call them (specifically Christians) happen to give more time, money, effort (statistically speaking) to aid, relief, and helping the poor more than the ‘non-religious.’
Just a thought.
I do not believe in god or jesus. But I think it’s OK for people to believe in that stuff. However, I don’t like it when people put themselves and other people in danger “believing” some magical ghost is going to come out of nowhere and do something to save the day. I think thats what bugs me the most about most religions. I think more people need to believe in themselves more and take care of business when it needs to be taken care of. I am tired of hearing about god being an excuse about something happening or jesus is going to save us so don’t worry. Everything is because of jesus. Jesus this and jesus that. I say if there ever was a jesus, then he was the only christian that ever existed. We would be so much further along if it wasn’t for religous freaks holding scientists back the last 2000 years. Religion is doing nothing but hurting mankind as a whole. We would be much better off without it. Just be a human being and enjoy the life right in front of your face. If you give love, you will recieve love. That’s all you need to do.
one of the main points ive heard from atheists is the idea of God not being omnipotent-in that someone had to create God and that viewpoint therefore renders Him not omnipotent and therefore not a God. to this i say-creation is beyond our human comprehension. there was nothingness. and it is so difficult for people to grasp the fact that humankind does not in fact know everything about the universe. God created us in his own image but because of human flaw (original sin) we do not know for certain or i guess have “evidence”. but human logic hasnt created evidence either. i personally am a follower of Christ and i know to some people the Bible may be filled with a lot of fairy tales but the biggest fairy tale ive heard is that for some reason somewhere the world just happened and humankind just seemed to create itself out of nothingness. i agree with your viewpoint completely on that issue
I’m with you about the two types of people in this world, and I’m with you that I believe that it’s not accidental. Another ‘point’ that I seem to ‘go back to’ factor is evil, and the implicit ramifications it has on us and our beliefs. It’s the old statement “I don’t believe in God because there’s so much evil in the world” and Ravi Zacharias handling of the question often times put everything in perspective. Briefly, he makes the argument that if there’s no such thing as God then there’s no such thing as evil. Do you believe it’s wrong/evil to rape a 3 year-old child? I believe there is such thing as evil and therefore I believe there is a moral law (giver.) Now we can argue what those moral laws are : )
Thank you for clarifying. I thought that’s what you meant, actually. I just wasn’t sure.
Best wishes!
Sorry, if I was unclear with my comments. English is not my mother language.
Theist (theism) = someone who believes in a personal god, like Yahweh or Allah, who hears prayers and works actively with the world and the universe.
Deist (deism) = someone who believes that there is a creator who created the universe, but pretty much left it alone. Oh well, Wikipedia says it better: “Deism is the belief that at least one deity exists and created the world, but that the creator(s) does/do not alter the original plan for the universe.[9] Deism typically rejects supernatural events (such as prophecies, miracles, and divine revelations) prominent in organized religion. Instead, Deism holds that religious beliefs must be founded on human reason and observed features of the natural world, and that these sources reveal the existence of a supreme being as creator.”
So, _if i would believe_ in a god, it would be a lot easier to believe in a deistic than a theistic god. It would make a lot more sense to me.
I don’t believe that there is a god, or lets say I leave the question open. I consider myself agnostic, so if there would be evidence for a god, I surely would believe in him. I’m satisfied with the answer “I don’t know if there is a god”, and I think that it is impossible to get evidence about whether a god does exist or doesn’t exist.
My point is, that maybe some people have a problem accepting the fact that theistic religions do make people believe in funny things (e.g. creationism) and make them do things that could be left undone (e.g. wars), if they were more rational. So the problem is not believing in a god, but believing in a theistic god. I know that wars and creationism are not necessary things to accept for believing in the christian god, but a lot of people do think that way.
Hope this made it clearer. And I understand your point of view; I used to be a christian for 12 years.
Thanks for the comments. I appreciate the dialogue.
So are you saying you believe there is a god, but you view him as vengeful, angry, and petty?
Just trying to understand your comment a little more.
I think that there is a big difference in being a deist or a theist. So believing in a creator doesn’t mean that you have to believe in the christian god, or in any of the other personified gods.
I would find it a lot easier to believe in a god that is so much more than what humans think of him. A god that would lack most of the traits that humans have, e.g. being hateful. But I don’t.