caught somewhere between real life, simple faith, & raw emotion
Quote of the Week On Christians
Here is the quote of the week. It’s from Chapter 10 of my book on Christians. I thought it would be appropriate considering the strange emails I’ve been getting:
“Christians speak in ways that don’t make sense. If you tell them you’re being laid off at work, they might respond, “Everything happens for a reason.” As if that’s exactly what you needed to hear.
Or if your child is facing emergency surgery, a Christian might tell you, “All things work for good for those who love the Lord.” Or if it’s their own child, they might even say, “Praise the Lord!” or “I’m trusting God!” You feel like some Christians think they don’t have problems like everyone else. It’s annoying and alienating, because it’s not always genuine.
And if that isn’t enough, Christians want to talk about things that don’t fit the conversation or that you don’t want to talk about. Maybe you just want to go out for a cup of coffee and talk normal, about normal things, with normal responses. But you feel like they’re just waiting for an opportunity to turn the conversation and try to “convert” you. Like, “Oh really? You mowed your lawn yesterday? That reminds me of something Jesus said about farming and about people who are going to hell.” You think, Just shut up or go away.
Christians can come off as distant—like they don’t live in the real world with the rest of humanity. You want to send them a postcard with a picture of earth and write on the back: Wish you were here!“
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Funny, Me being a Christian or “self proclaimed Jesus follower” has seen exactly what Jason is talking about and it is with out a shadow of doubt that Christians, yes Christians are our own worst enemy. That whole thing(even though in context Jesus was talking about when He was accused of being a demon that casted out demons) that a kingdom divided against itself can not stand…. What about the Kingdom of God? What are we here for as self proclaimed Christians? Could we be Christians by not saying we were? And being too heavenly minded that we are no earthly good? Absolutely that is what in part I believe Jason is saying. I can’t wait to read my copy that is coming in 4 business days.
Huh? What exactly are you saying Mr. Kill?
Of course I’m not surprised, there is nothing interesting about that. In fact, that is what I would expect.
Joe,
It could be that I totally missed the subtlety of your many points. I’ve been known to do that. It’s just getting cliche having comments like yours coming from Christians who haven’t read the book. Is that so unreasonable a point from me?
You can say you haven’t passed full judgment all you want, but that is not how your comments come off to me–especially when you make a point of saying something like you “don’t want to pay for it.” That, along with other comments, (whether you think so or not) come together as personal in nature. If it were not meant to be a type of personal jab, then why not simply email me direct? It just doesn’t jibe.
It seems personal since it is uninformed. Isn’t that the very basis of being judgmental? Making an evaluation without any actual facts?
And the comments that I highlight as positive (be they agnostics or whatever), have come from people who have read and purchased the book. So yes, they carry more weight since they’re got skin in the game.
And call me a jerk, but I really can’t ‘feel’ the well-wishes in your closing.
Admittedly, I have a lot to learn. That’s one of the pillars I build the book on. In fact, I start the book with “I’m wrong.”
I guess, once again, I’m wrong.
I suppose I’ll just leave it at.
Jason,
Mischaracterization #1: You accused me of passing full judgement…
Truth: I said, “Based on the clips I have read and your ABC interview, right now my discernment is that this book is more of a whiny, intentionally controversial, provocatively titled attempt to make money; than to really create “positive momentum” through “negative tension”.
Mischaracterization #2: You accuse me of making “several” personally scathing remarks about you.
Truth: Several? Really? The closest thing to a “personally scathing remark” I made, was that you are doing this for money.
Mischaracterization #3: You claim I am not being respectful.
Truth: Really? I guess disrespect and criticism are synonymous just like honesty and candidness. I meant no and conveyed no disrespect in my comment, I simply communicated a, yes, critical comment about your post.
Mischaracterization #4: You accuse my “God Bless” as being insincere or otherwise inappropriate.
Truth: Dude, do you seriously have thick enough skin to enter this arena? I’ve witnessed many more-intense debates than this that end with well-wishing. Did you even read my last few sentences, or did you simply dismiss them as insincerity? Seems you have your own set of rules on what someone can say, how they can say it, and where that classifies them in your book.
Mischaracterization #5: That I think you have made a lot of money from this venture.
Truth: I said that I think this is an “attempt”. The market is flooded with feel-good stuff, most of which doesn’t sell much at all. Controversy and provocativeness always draws the most attention, thus, a high potential to sell. Especially among certain groups, everyone knows that.
In conclusion, to address your statement: “Too many Christians take themselves too seriously and hold themselves in too high a regard.” Yes, and in Jesus’ day they were called Pharisees. There will always be people like this, both in and out of Christianity.
You said this in your other post that you said I should read: “The other interesting thing is that some of the kindest emails (in response to my first ABC News interview) have come from self-proclaimed humanists, pagans, atheists, and agnostics.”
#1 Of course I’m not surprised, there is nothing interesting about that. In fact, that is what I would expect.
#2 But it is interesting that you give credence to their comments based on as you put it, “…They by no means comprehensively represent the book (just like the ABC interview didn’t, which I have no control of by the way). These are highlights.” So let me get this straight. Those kind comments based on the same amount of information have enough credibility, though not context, that you will use the existence of them to defend your position. But my critical comments based on the same info, condemn me to the bars of they very chapter you quote here.
Again, God Bless,
Joe
Joe,
Context, context, context. You said it yourself and then follow that up by passing full judgment without understanding the whole context? Do you see the irony? It’s like reviewing a movie from the preview.
I post these quotes from the book for fun and to create a curiosity about it. They by no means comprehensively represent the book (just like the ABC interview didn’t, which I have no control of by the way). These are highlights.
As a friend and fellow Christian, I am VERY disappointed that you would write this without even having read the book. In fact, you go on to say several personally scathing remarks about me based on your uninformed impression. On top of that, you finish it off with “God Bless.” WOW! Seriously? You’ve got to be kidding…
Since you felt the freedom to speak so directly to me, I will now do the same (but more respectfully). In the end, as you set out to criticize and judge, you prove the very point of the chapter I quoted here. I am by no means closed to discussions, but they must be built on knowledge and not conjecture.
You might want to read this:
http://blog.jasonberggren.com/2009/05/06/catching-hell-from-christians.aspx
And by the way, I am flat broke. If I wanted to make money I would go with the feel good stuff. I wouldn’t go with such a polarizing title and fill the contents with all my limitations and mistakes. I wrote this book because I felt I HAD to. Too many Christians take themselves too seriously and hold themselves in too high a regard. We could all benefit from a sense of humor and a bit more self-awareness.
Maybe I’m wrong…
-jason
Jason,
I really have to take issue with you on this article. You tend to do the same things that you claim to despise. You take an extreme example of something without giving it any context to prove your point. Most christians do not say “Everything happens for a reason”, and leave it at that. That statement, as true as it is, is usually part of a larger contextual conversation. Are there bone-headed christians out there? Of course. Are their numbers, relatively speaking, greater than that of their secular counterparts? Probably not. Your deduction that Christians talk funny and don’t talk normal, can be attributed to a fundamental ignorance of the bible by believers and non-believers alike. Your classification of “normal things” is simply the result of pop culture taking God out of everything. What you call abnormal, was once normal, and to me still is. A good example of this is found in an older song performed by a band named Truth. The song is titled, “Living Life Upside Down”. I haven’t read your book, but I would like to. Honestly, I don’t want to pay for it. Based on the clips I have read and your ABC interview, right now my discernment is that this book is more of a whiny, intentionally controversial, provocatively titled attempt to make money; than to really create “positive momentum” through “negative tension”. Honesty is important, but today people have mistaken that word for candidness. It is possible to have one without the other. Your conclusion that by being candid about everything, somehow that makes you more honest than most of the christian community is sadly misguided. All this being said, I admire your entrepreneurial spirit, and wish you success based on the Lord’s blessings. Personally, I would prefer to see you succeed on the follow-up endeavor debunking most of it’s predecessor. Maybe I’ll go down to my local library and check it out.
God Bless,
Joe
Ha Ha Ha Yeah I got on the scale last week and was up to 280. I quit Soda that day so in 2 more weeks I will check again. Drinking 3 or 4 sodas a day is bad for the waistline.
The ‘social problem’ you speak of in the context of having only a couple of friends is called ‘being a guy’.
Anyway, can’t wait to hang-out again some time soon. The only thing that makes me mad is that it sounds like you won’t be as fat as me…
I am glad that you are feeling this way now. I remember back in say 10th grade when you didn’t feel the same (at least that was the impression I got back then). I went through some hard times when I felt like my brother (you at the time) was being pulled away from me. Me and you were inseparable in Jr. High and through 9th grade and then you meet Beth’s Mom and John and went full force into religion. I was pretty set back as we then had nothing in common as that was all you wanted in life. It was real hard for me to lose the only close friend I had. I only ever have 1 (maybe 2) close friends. It is a result of some kind of social solitude problem I have I guess.
Just let me say that it has really made me feel good knowing that I can again talk to you after almost 20 years. Jason you were my other brother and I look forward to being your friend again.
Now that your not that creepy religious crazy anymore lol
Chris
Yes!!!!!!! You are so perfectly correct with this assessment. Ha!